MONTY THE ANSWER MAN ARCHIVE
SEATS
CESSNA 150/152 SEATS...(4199)
From: Bob Runge <ejectr@javanet.com>
I have Cessna 150 or 152 seats in my Swift. First of all, how can I
tell if they are 150 or 152 seats? I believe the 152 seats have the AD on
them and not the 150 seats.....correct? Secondly, asking this question I
obviously have no paperwork or log entries as to their appearance. What do
I need? I hope not a field approval. My airfilter is now in the hands of
my FSDO engineering department. Who knows how much longer.
Bob:
The really correct way to handle it is to have a field approval - but my
reaction when the FAA gets on one of their non-cooperative kicks is just
to not tell them about it. When you think about it, the seat belt attachment
points are not affected, so you might consider it a minor alteration. Is
there a part number visible anywhere? The 152 seats are a little wider, but
I can't tell them apart. The upholstery pattern might be a clue, but I'm
no 150/152 expert. All Cessna's have an AD note on the seat tracks, 87-20-03,
but none on the seats that I know of. I would just not mention it, if you're
AI wants to get a field approval, let him. Dozens of Swifts have been field
approved with 150/152 seats however. -- Jim
MAY THERE BE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 150 AND 152 SEATS AFTER ALL?
(4399)
Subject: Re: Cessna l50 & 152 seats
From: Dennis Ghering <Swift1946@aol.com>
Hi Jim:
While reading the April GTS #1 nternet update for April the questions about
Cessna 150 & 152 seats. The seats are different the way they look and
have a different hinge system on the back rests. The tracks have a different
width, if I remember right, The width of the 152 track is about 3/4 to 1
inch narrower then the 150 seat. I know this for a fact because there were
150 seats in my swift when I first bought it . I decided that the 152 seat
looks better and the back rest hinges were a better design , though I could
just slip the seats in the same tracks without doing any thing, but found
out the hard way the track widths were different. -- Dennis
Dennis:
Hmm..I installed 152 Seats in Gerald Beckers N3741K and thought the seats
themselves were wider. Regardless, I will fwd. your info to Denis, maybe
it will save someone else some work. -- Jim
CESSNA 150/152 SEATS IN A SWIFT... (5599)
From: "Williams, Rand" <Williara@aircraft.hill.af.mil>
I'm trying to find out from whom I can obtain the STC to install Cessna 150
seats in a Swift. Your site is not completed yet, and I cannot seem to get
the FAA web site to come up for the Swift STC's. We want to install the seats
in N3324K S/N 1317 owned by Jack Francis of Perry, UT. My name is Rand Williams,
CFI and A&P. I am a member of the Swift Association (even though I don't
own one). I flew Jack's Swift to Brigham City, UT from Lincoln, NE about
one month ago, and unfortunately a week later high winds, to the tune of
113 MPH, blew the hangar doors in and damaged the leading edges of both wings
and the cowling (which we had off the aircraft at the time). So, while it
is out of commission for a while we would like to take care of the seat problem.
I would appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks, Rand Williams
Rand,
There is no STC for C-150 seats in a Swift. I looked into this quite thoroughly
some years ago. The problem is, there are dozens, perhaps hundreds, of different
part numbers for C-150 seats and you would have to list all of them. My FAA
inspector friend threw up his hands and said, "I think I better just give
you a field approval on this". The seat belt attachments are not affected,
so its really no big deal. There is an aluminum strip (something less than
.100) that goes under the floor as a doubler, picking up the attach screws.
I think this is part of the Cessna seat track installation. I forgot to mention,
there is a new requirement on 337 approvals. Its called "continued
airworthiness". For the C-150 seats, you should make a statement, "For continued
airworthiness AD 87-20-13 R2 complied with and must be performed at each
annual inspection". AD notes for C-150 seats and seat tracks should be entered
in the aircraft AD check list. -- Jim
CESSNA 150/152 SEATS...(7199)
From: "Ernie and/or Penny Hansen"
<ern&pen@tenforward.com>
Subject: 150/152 Seats
Getting ready to find some seats for my rebuild project. I have read the past articles in the newsletters regarding the possible differences between the 150 and 152 seats. The various articles left me confused whether there is a difference and if so, would the difference (possible seat rail width) present a problem with installation on a ribbed floor? Would hate to pick the wrong seat and have one rail on a peak and the other in a valley! Any help clarifying this matter would be appreciated. -- Ernie Hansen
Ernie,
The ribbed floor on the early s/n's goes spanwise, in other words 90 degrees
to the direction of the seat tracks. If 150 seat tracks are installed in
one of these early airplanes the existing holes at the edge of the seat track
may not line up perfectly with a "high" corrugation, new holes would have
to be drilled, and a new doubler installed under the floor. I have not personally
installed 150 seats in one of these early airplanes, but Dennis Ghering has
them in s/n 74 and Ron Erickson has them in s/n 157. (I'm not sure when they
quit making the floors like that) The seats vary in height, so you should
try yours for fit before permanently installing them. Dennis Gehring has
152 seats in his Swift (s/n 74). He formerly had 150 seats installed. He
says the early "corrogated" floor models are the easiest and best models
to install 150/152 seats in. He used a strip of hardwoood about 21" long,
tapered 1/8" to 3/4" under the seat track which allows the adjusting mechanism
to clear the spar. Also, makes it "sit" right and rolls back nicely. To get
a seat track 21" long, he used one whole 150 track, and 1/2 of another one.
He says you can use a 172 track also.-- Jim
Reply From: Don Bartholomew <spectro@nanosecond.com>
Organization: The Aeroplane Factory
Ernie,
First, I am not well versed on Cessna's, but I have seen a few differences.
The problem is that I am not sure what differences go with what model.
The "normal" 150 seat is fairly low (about five to six inches above the floor). I have seen this type of seat with the legs for the tracks going straight down from the seat frame and also with one side going straight down, and the other side going inboard at about a 15 degree angle. I believe these are both 150 seats but of different years. There is another seat that I have been told is from the 152 that has a jackscrew arrangement to raise the entire seat. I don't know if all 152's had this or if it was just an upgrade. This seat is too high for a tall person. The legs on these were one side straight down and the other angled inboard. My suggestion is to measure the floor, then look at different seats and measure them to see which will work best for your application.
It has been too long since I have seen a corrugated floor to remember, but do the corrugations go fore /aft, or side to side? I seem to remember side to side, but I could be wrong about that. The corrugated floor should be strong enough to mount the rails directly to the floor without any additional stiffeners. Good Luck -- Don and Helo
IN SEARCH OF STOCK SWIFT SEATS... (12199)
From: Austin Smith <P51pilot44@cs.com>
Subject: seats
Dear Jim,
I've been having trouble finding new seats for a swift 125. The wood board
on the bottom has rotted away. I have been trying to find some over the internet
without any luck. Your help would be appreciated. Austin Smith
Austin,
There are probably a lot of used original seats out there, try an ad in all
the newsletters and perhaps, Trade-A-Plane. I made new bottoms for my Swift
and the Swift I owned before that using the old seats as patterns. It's not
too hard to do. -- Jim
HOW SMALL CHANGES CAN BECOME REAL PROJECTS... (12299)
From: Keith Bracht <kab_bjb@skat.net>
Subject: Swift Stuff
Denis,
Well, what started out as a small change has blossomed into a real project.
On the trip from Arlington to Westover and back I decided that the stock
bench seat wasn't all that comfortable for my big carcass. I bought some
used 150 seats to install but the old material used for the side panels and
bench are no longer available. So, now I have an entirely new interior. Once
the old one was out and laying on the hanger floor I realized how much it
needed replacing anyway. The new seats are great. We had the upholstery work
done by North Country Upholstery at Arlington, WA. I'd recommend their work
to anyone. Besides, they have a picture of your airplane hanging on the wall
so they must know what they're doing. Thanks, Keith
BACK SEAT DRIVERS (REAR SEATS IN SWIFTS...) (030201)
From: sthomp@swlink.net
Our 6 year old daughter (40 lbs) was with us (for lunch...not flying) and the
subject of a 3rd seat came up. I had seen a reference to it as part of the panel
STC...seems strange! Joel said you had done one for someone in the past
sometime. Is there a viable (legal) 3rd seat mod? We have always taken her
whenever we did cross countries in the Comanches and would like to have that
ability in the Swift. The tailwheel is now 100%...with installation of the new
arm assy. BTW, my P/N is 3214T. The T means heavy duty. I had to call Scott to
find out why my old arm assy looked different than the drawings in the catalog.
It's functionally the same as 3214, but has larger "arms". I probably
could have used the 3214 and saved about $15, but perhaps there are other
differences that I could not see. I do notice a slight improvement in right foot
steerability now. Also finally fixed the "no red light on gear up"
problem...it was a broken lead on the dropping resistor going to the red light
socket. The break was inside a spaghetti sleeve and not visible. -- Steve
Steve,
There is an STC for a rear seat in a Swift. I do not recommend it, it kind of
ruins the airplane both from the "feel" and character of the Swift but
also from a structural standpoint. I only know of one I did on N80539 and one
Bruce Volpe did on N3793K. The drawings are not very good and show some things
that cannot be done, like intersecting two angles without notching one. Also,
the tie channel behind the seat has to be removed, which I don't feel is a very
good idea. I installed the seat in 1972 for our 12 year old daughter, who is now
41 years old and has a little one of her own. Kids grow up, but Swifts don't
heal up major surgeries and revert back to original configuration! I used to
attend some fly-ins with my daughter. Other times, my wife went with me and
Margy went with Mark Holliday in his Swift. A Swift doesn't handle to good at an
aft CG well beyond the aft limit. I guess my recommendation would be, if you
absolutely need a back seat, get one of the 4 place aircraft which are
available. -- Jim
SEAT BELT/HARNESS...(040601)
From: Bill Weaver <Swift238@aol.com>
Subject: Re: April #5 GTS Internet Update
You might want to pass this along to Jim and some Swifters who were in the last
Newsletter. The STC'd (mulitple) shoulder harness assembly I had was sold to
Monte Zema. This is the one Chuck Lischer started and I completed. I am not sure
if the Assoc. has these or not. I lost track of Monte a few years ago. Swifters
could buy them from the Assoc. for years....not sure now. See ya, Bill
SHOULDER HARNESS APPROVALS... (060301)
Subj: Shoulder harness 337
From: Jon Tuuri <JTuuri@aol.com>
Monty
I have installed Hooker harnesses in the swift using the hardware that Vaughn
supplies from Swiftworks. I think the hardware is a copy of the hardware used in
one of the STC for harnesses. My mechanic is looking for a 337 field approval
for that type of install so he can attach it to mine for processing. Do you know
of any one who might have a 337 field approval for this type of installation?
Jon
Just quote the angles in AC43.13-2A and shoot it through. The FAA is real
"easy" on shoulder harnesses these days. Their theory is a bad
installation is better than no harness at all. Sorry, I don't have a 337 copy,
but that should not be a problem. -- Jim
DOC FOUND MONTE ZEMA...(020102)
Subj: Re: Shoulder Harness
From: Doc Moore <darladoc@sport.rr.com>
Jim:
Monte is still selling them. (Shoulder harnesses) He has the belts made as he
gets orders but says the belts are getting very expensive. He has the STC so it
would appear his deal is the way to go. The last set he sold he got $500 and
said he didn't make any money. He is going to call Wag Aero and see if they'll
make them any cheaper. Told me to send him a letter and he would send me the
info and pics. He also has the Lischer P-51 gear door STC and gets $500 for a
set. Also has the STC'd cowling for the 200 Lyc conversion and the Lischer Stick
STC (or maybe he said "like Lischer sticks"... don't remember which).
Anyone interested can write him at Custom Swift Modifications, 769A Williams
Lake Road, Colville, Wash 99114. I reached him at the 509-684-2601 number which
sounded like his hangar. Said he is still working on Swifts a lot.
Doc,
In the US, there is an STC (Supplemental Type Certificate) for installing the
shoulder harness. It is held by Monte Zema, 771 Adam Sherry Rd, Colville, WA
99114, USA Phone 1-509-684-5348 or 1-509-684-2501 The latest price for the
STC'ed shoulder harness is pricey at $500 US. Mr Zema was going to try and get a
better price from a different supplier last I heard. The STC'ed shoulder harness
anchors to a couple of steel brackets bolted with AN -3 bolts to the
"T" extrusion aft of the seat. Also, in the US the FAA has published a
book, AC43.13-2A which details how to install a commercially available shoulder
harness. I won't try and inspect your airplane from thousands of miles away, but
if you have specific questions I will try and answer them. -- Jim
SHOULDER HARNESS APPROVAL... (FEB 03)
Subj: 337
From: Bud England <dalswift1@aol.com
Monty: As you know, it is now virtually impossible to get a 337 okayed. What in
the world am I going to do about shoulder harnesses? Bud
Bud
Shoulder harnesses are still one thing that's pretty easy to get approved. Just
make sure you do it per AC43.13-2A. -- Jim
CESSNA SEAT RAILS... (NOV 03)
Subj: N3741K C-152 Seats
From: milehighdittmers@comcast.net (Mile High Dittmers)
Jim,
So I read the email on C-150/152 seats. N3741K, Gerald Becker’s old Swift,
seat rails are really chewed up with drill holes and the bushings simply don’t
roll without a fight. I want to replace them but can’t figure out how. I saw
in the email you put the seats in 3741K? Do you know what seat rail and bushings
to order? What serial number or year of Cessna they came from? That they are
actually C-152 vs. C-150 seats? I couldn’t find a logbook entry or other info
in the stuff I’ve got. Trying hard to get 3741K up to airworthy condition,
Henry
Henry
That was a long time ago, but as I recall those were 152 seats. I think I got a
field approval on them from the FAA, the 337 form should be in the aircraft
records. Seats are something that the FAA inspectors are not supposed to approve
under the new rules. Gerald bought those seats, but the 152 seats a little too
wide and don't work as well as the 150 seats. The seat rails and rollers can be
purchased from McFarlane Aviation Inc. 1-800-544-8594 I don't know what year and
model your seats are but I think they are all the same. -- Jim
FAA GIVING THE SMITHSONIAN SWIFT SOME ATTENTION...(MAY 04)
Subj: NC 80518
From: Pete King <peetking@earthlink.net>
Hi Jim,
Still being hassled by the Feds over my fuel pump failure on 80518. Now I'm told
that mounting my shoulder harness on the " A " frame roll over bars is
not correct because of the angle of the bar. Knowing that I will be safer - - I
could just remove them ( the shoulder harness ). In lieu of that stupid solution
- - do you know of an acceptable way to mount the harness in aircraft with the
'A " frame set up ??? On another subject, I am told that a part that has
been on an aircraft for a SUBSTANTIAL period and has operated well can be field
approved and thus made legal. Do you happen to know where that regulation can be
found ?? Thanks for your continuing service to our community, Pete
Pete
There is an STC for a shoulder harness in the Swift:Beltmaster shoulder harness:
For Swift GC-1A,-1B series. STC#: SA1843NM Description: Installation of
Beltmaster shoulder harness. Monte L. Zema, Route 4, Box 195, Colville, WA
99114. Now the shoulder harness is kind of expensive, you may not want to spend
the money for an airplane you are giving away. For a quick, easy solution, maybe
just removing the shoulder harness might be best. The field approval policy is
not a regulation, but a policy in the FAA Inspectors handbook 8300.10. I forget
the latest CHG, but it is something like 16 or 18. You can search it on the FAA
site. -- Jim