MONTY THE ANSWER MAN ARCHIVE
Swift Continental IO-360 Information
CONTINENTAL IO-360 AD...
AD 97-26-17, (replace airmelt crank with vacuum arc remelt {VAC} crank),
has been mailed to all those concerned and includes the straight IO-360s
(not just the turbos). Apparently, FAA data showed that 5 of the 8 airmelt
crankshaft failures occurred on IO-360 (non-turbo) engines and of the five,
two had more than 1,200 hours total time. The FAA’s position is that
the failures are random and time in service is not the determining factor.
So, how to tell which crank is which? Swifter Jim Montague has the
following advice:
“As you probably know by now, AD 97-26-17 is out; making replacement of Continental IO-360 crankshafts mandatory at overhaul. FYI - A VAR crank may be identified by removing the propeller. A 6 digit serial number will be visible on the crankshaft flange. From memory, an airmelt crank might have a part number, 639200, in ink on the flange (or 639786), this is not a serial number. Otherwise, when #6 cylinder is removed, VAR should be visible cast on the crank cheek.”
WOW! THE ANWSER MAN HAS A QUESTION !!!
From Jim Montague...(posted on the Yahoo! Globe Temco Swift Club page)
I maintain a Swift with an IO-360 Cont. engine. When it sits for over a month
it idles very rough and will hardly run at less than full throttle. At idle,
the mixture control needs to be backed out considerably, just to run. After
a hour or so of running, it seems ok. If the airplane is flown at least every
week, this problem never shows up. The fuel injection components were sent
in to a repair station - no trouble was found. I suspect something with the
fuel pump. Any ideas?
Answer from Tony Jolly (agjolly@netdoor.com)
With the symptoms you gave there are a couple of things that might be a
problem.
1. I understand this is a fuel Injected engine - If this is true, there should
be some sort of fuel regulation to the injection system. If this is sticking
open and allowing to much fuel pressure it could cause the symptoms.
2. As fuel sits for extended periods, some contaminates or additives of the
fuel could fall out or make deposits in the fuel system. You might try turning
off your fuel - when you know it will be down for a while - and starve the
engine of fuel for final shutdown.
3. It could be something in the Air components of the fuel system because
it sounds as if it is running very rich.
WOW! THE ANSWER MAN HAS A QUESTION !!! PART TWO...
We ran the following question from Jim Montague last month:
From Jim Montague...(posted on the Yahoo! Globe Temco Swift Club page)
I maintain a Swift with an IO-360 Cont. engine. When it sits for over a month
it idles very rough and will hardly run at less than full throttle. At idle,
the mixture control needs to be backed out considerably, just to run. After
a hour or so of running, it seems ok. If the airplane is flown at least every
week, this problem never shows up. The fuel injection components were sent
in to a repair station - no trouble was found. I suspect something with the
fuel pump. Any ideas?
Here is a reply from Michael Kennedy of the Swift Magic Aerobatic Team
(SMAT3@aol.com)...
Jim:
I have had this problem a few times with my Swift after long period of not
running -- mainly when I was still in the AF flying fighters and away on
overseas duties. The problem is the O-ring in the fuel controller at
the throttle butterfly valve. It has a tendency to shrink up when not in
contact with fuel. This causes the rough running with too much fuel by passing
to the injection manifold valve. After the O-ring has been in contact with
fuel it gets back to normal size and the problem goes away. Lowell and I
took awhile figuring this out when we were both in the Miami area. Instead
of running the engine to clear this up, you can try running your boost pump
the day before you are going to fly. This will get fuel through the system
and the O-ring should be back to normal the next day. -- Michael
Kennedy
PS. You are not supposed to open the fuel metering housing to change the
O-ring. But there is nothing in there but the metering ring with the O-ring
around it.
LYCOMING VS CONTINENTAL AIRSTARTS... From Swifter Madison Jones...
On the Cont. IO-360 fuel starvation issue, I can certainly attest to how
difficult it is to get them going again compared to the Lycoming IO-360.
After having run the aux tanks empty rountinely to the point of engine stoppage
(on the Lycoming), and then having the fire light right off, no problemo,
I was not concerned when, flying a friend’s Continental IO-360, the
engine quit due to having the aux tank run dry over the mountains one nice
day when I was at 9,500’ msl. By the time it started running again,
I had descended to BELOW the level of the adjacent ground level, and was
in the Spokane River cut through the mountains, approximately 4000’
msl. Not only must you use the fuel boost, you must be careful about
it lest you flood the system (or whatever I did for over 5000’). For
those who have not totally lost an engine before, be aware that even at
reasonable glide speeds of about 85 mph, in flat pitch a Swift drops
like a piano tossed out the 10th story window. The whole adventure didn’t
take more than a couple of minutes, but I did appreciate the difference between
Lycoming and Continental injection systems. Needless to say, I like
the Lycoming much better. ----Madison Jones
SMAT 3 CHECKS IN...
News from Swift Magic Aerobatic Team member Michael Kennedy (smat3@aol.com)
and his opinion on the Continental IO-360 airstart problem related by Swifter
Madison Jones (ab5tv@ix.netcom.com) in last month’s Swiftweb:
Note on Continental airstart. The altitude was the problem. At 9500 ft you can only use low boost when the engine stops. High boost will flood it out until you get to lower altitude. We run our tanks dry all the time to insure they are empty before performing for a show. I have never had more than a few seconds of silence and not lost any altitude. This is why the Continental IO-360 STC has a two position fuel boost switch included. High boost is only to prime for start. It can be used to catch a empty tank, but even at lower altitudes it could be too much. I have a two light warning system for my boost switch - Yellow, low boost on, RED high boost on. You need to know which boost position is selected, especially if you loose the engine pump at low altitude. High boost could keep you from getting your engine restarted. -- Michael Kennedy
CONTINENTAL IO-360 OIL CAPACITY... (7399)
Subject: Re: Oil capacity
From: Pete King <peetking@earthlink.net>
Hi, Jim,
The Continental IO360 has a 10 quart sump. However they won't operate at
that capacity -- since it seems to throw out anything over 6 quarts. The
engine would run cooler with 10. Do you know of a FIX ? Regards, Pete King
Pete:
We have several IO-360's here locally and none seem to have that problem.
On my O-300 I run 6 or 7 quarts to avoid throwing out the last quart. I will
ask some of the IO-360 guys about this, but I don't believe anyone has to
run over a quart low. -- Jim
CONTINENTAL IO-360s THROWING OUT OIL... (7499)
Subject: Re: Oil capacity
From: Pete King <peetking@earthlink.net>
Hi, Jim,
The Continental IO360 has a 10 quart sump. However they won't operate at
that capacity -- since it seems to throw out anything over 6 quarts. The
engine would run cooler with 10. Do you know of a FIX ? Regards, Pete King
Pete:
I polled the local IO-360 owners. Doc Goodlad has no problem with throwing
oil out. (IO-360C) Daryl Dressler has no problem. (IO-360D) Harry Lyon
uses hardly any oil. (IO-360D) Mark Holliday uses no oil with his IO-360A
but says their Skyhawk XP with the IO-360K threw out anything over 6 quarts.
That sump was meant to hold 8 quarts. I guess thats all I know. -- Jim
CONTINENTAL IO-360 STUFF... (7499)
From: Sandb12345@aol.com
Subject: N80776 update
Again thanks for the updates! Lots of good information. Something to think
about! N80776 has a Cont.I0-360-C. Ran fine at sea level but above five thousand
feet on take off would surge and quit. Some use of the boost pump kept the
engine running out of Clayton NM. Then in the air the air pressure on the
vent kept it running. But no way out of Durango NM. almost seven thousand
feet. Left it there. (the company I flew for had a citation that flew in
to Durango twice a week) Went back four times taking off fuel pumps, injection
system ect. All rebuilt still wouldn't run. Checked the fitting on the Dukes
pump found a loose fitting from the tank to the pump, tightened it and Wa-La
it ran. I flew it home after 20 days on the ramp! It still has a problem
with cutting out when it's hot, but I plan on tracing the fuel line from
the tank up. Any body have any ideas?
The STC for the 210 installation details how the resistors are wired in to make a high and low speed pump. It involves 2ea. 2 ohm resistors in the "hi boost" and one 2 ohm resistor in the "lo boost" side of the switch. Did not whoever did your engine installation do that? Did they not place a copy of the STC in the aircraft records? I would double check everything. But I think you have found the main culprit. Did whoever who did your conversion route the vapor return line per the STC? It's important! I have seen several that are not per the STC! -- Jim
From: Don Bartholomew <spectro@nanosecond.com>
Organization: The Aeroplane Factory
Subject: Re: N80776 update
Check the fuel lines for the old style stainless braid Aeroquip hose. These had a nasty problem of developing small holes that would suck air in, but would not leak air out. If you have this type of line, replace all of them with either a rubber outer braid Aeroquip or Stratoflex stainless.
Another item to check is where the return line from the injector pump is going. It should go the the top of the fuel neck, just under the gauge. If it goes to any place that has fuel standing, like the sump, there is to much back pressure, and this can cause a problem of running rich. You stated you changed the pump and injection, but was the injection set up per Continental Service Bulletin SID97-3? Just because the pressures were set when the pump/injection was rebuilt, doesn't mean that it is correct for the installation. By setting the system per the SB, you can get an idea if you are sucking air from the pressure gauge readings.
The pump called for in the STC is a single speed pump that runs through resistors both for high and low speed. If you don't have ALL the paperwork for the STC, contact Suzanne Evans at Merlyn Products and get the paperwork then check what is supposed to be against what is there. -- Good luck -- Don Bartholomew
From: SMAT3@aol.com
Subject: IO-360 reply
Sheridan:
The Dukes boost pump for the IO-360 has two speeds through resistors. The
High setting is for priming the engine for start and the low speed to back
up the engine driven pump. The high speed side can flood the engine if used
in flight -- there is a noticeable increase in fuel pressure if you turn
it on in flight and it will change your mixture considerably. It is not
recommended to turn the boost pump on during take off or landing except if
your engine driven quits -- i.e., the engine stops and you don't know why
-- boost on and switch tanks!(assuming you have long range tanks too) Many
of us have placed the boost pump switch near the throttle so it is easy to
reach in an emergency. Interestingly enough, Beechcraft also states that
the boost pump should not be used except in an emergency for my Bonanza too.
As for the IO-360 problem, I would ask if you have the proper mixture set at the throttle body. This mixture is set with a screw head in a sleeve on the side of the throttle body where the hose goes to the injector spider and must be adjusted for each individual aircraft. A simple check is to run the engine at 1000 rpm and slowly pull out the mixture. The rpm should rise about 50 rpm just before the engine quits. If it does not rise but just quits suddenly, the mixture is too lean. This would be very noticeable when the engine is hot and you push the throttle in -- it would also be cured by turning on the boost pump which makes the mixture run rich. If the rpm gains much over 150 rpm before stopping, it is too rich. This should not cause cutting out unless it is really rich which would be very noticeable on the above check. If you have checked this and the fuel lines, I do not have any other ideas right now. -- Michael Kennedy
(Editor's note... Got this reply from Sheridan: "Didn't think I would have all this expert advice! This is a neat group! Thanks for your speedy reply!!! Sheridan")
On to more IO-360 Stuff -- Page
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